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View Full Version : Steve - Your Idea has already been done. (almost)



Reno Chris
08-15-2012, 10:01 AM
While in Alaska recently, Steve and I joked about the possibility of creating an i-phone ap that would turn your i-phone into a long range detector (LRL or LRD). Of course neither one of us believes that LRLs actually find gold, but you could easily make an ap that looked very scientific and blinked when pointed in certain directions. The discussion was very tounge-in-cheek (except for the fact that a blinky light application would not be all that difficult). We were joking, so dont expect to ever see anything like that offered on the AMDS website!

Still, easy ideas to take other people's money will appeal to some less than honest individuals with lower scruples.

While I was surfing on the web I followed a couple of links and look what I found:
http://www.okmmetaldetectors.com/products/longrange.php?lang=en
(http://www.okmmetaldetectors.com/products/longrange.php?lang=en)
An LRL based on an android phone!
Not an I-phone, but an android smart phone, which is close!

Just as a note to the less experienced prospectors here, folks often ask "what detector should I buy?" and the correct answer is never an LRL.

AK Nugget
08-15-2012, 04:49 PM
I've thought of this too, but using an Ipad that connects to a hand wand and coil. Write the app for touch screen controls and display, surely there's enough processor power and memory, and the coil and head phones could connect via the accessory connection. It would be easy to upgrade and download the app as needed. Sell the hardware & software and the user supplies the Ipad. Somebody could make fortune! :D

Neal

geowizard
08-17-2012, 07:11 AM
Chris and AK Nugget,

The idea has merit. I develop apps for the Android. I have also been involved in design of geophysical exploration systems for the past two decades. See www.wellog.com . The systems I currently market have a mini USB connect to a low cost notebook computer. The USB serial port receives serial data. The data can be stored in a format that can be used to make a contour map.

The display and high level capabilities of a smart phone certainly could be useful in metal detecting - it represents at least half of the electronics you pay for when you buy a detector. :)

- Geowizard

tvanwho
08-17-2012, 06:47 PM
I found an old LRL that actually seems to work at short distances and I can even tune gold, silver, coins in or out by turning a knob.I just don't understand why they charge thousands of dollars for something that costs 15 bucks to put together? I sent away for a vernier knob with markings so I can write down numbers for where this thing accepts and rejects my test targets.I am not selling anything so don't trash me .
We found some decent pickers last time I was out on the Wabash river and I was just using my copper L rods to look for gold bearing cracks in the river bottom.
Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, just another tool to use in the hunt for the yellow stuff in my opinion.

-Tom V.

geowizard
08-18-2012, 07:59 AM
T,

"I just don't understand why they charge thousands of dollars for something that costs 15 bucks to put together? I sent away for a vernier knob with markings so I can write down numbers for where this thing accepts and rejects my test targets.I am not selling anything so don't trash me ."

There are two important points to understand...

1. The entire history of man-kind is replete with fraud. Without getting into a debate of the functionality of LRL's, there is the marketing aspect where "believers" believe things that have no physical basis in fact. Belief systems are powerful, and those belief systems compel people to reach deep into their pockets.

2. Detectors operate on certain geo physical principles. They must meet standards of recognized "understanding" of the world around us.

- Geowizard

geowizard
08-18-2012, 01:22 PM
With reference to the link provided by Chris above, note; Kellyco is a distributor.

DO you believe? :)

"The bio-energy system interacts with the bio energy of your own body during the localization of gold and silver objects to observe minimum changes of object substances. Thereby the gold detector Bionic 01 is able to locate almost all metallic objects whereas the ionization system is a method to measure the ions radiation (ions absorbance). Therefore a metal-ion reaction chamber is integrated in the Bionic 01."

This amazing detector retails for $15,995. At Kellyco discount pricing is $12,995.

Or... Do you believe...

Another LRL: :)

Fugro Airborne has been in the business of geophysical surveying for decades. www.fugroairborne.com.

They have done surveys all over Canada, Alaska and many other parts of the world. They will probably be selected to do more surveys in Alaska this month per the Alaska DGGS website. This is important scientific work that maps out the mineral resources of Alaska. It's public information. The surveys are paid for by the State of Alaska in order to identify new mineral resources.

- Geowizard

Reno Chris
08-18-2012, 03:27 PM
DO you believe? :)


Of course neither one of us believes that LRLs actually find gold,

I think the line above from my original post makes it abundantly clear that no, I do not believe in LRLs.
I think they are a gigantic pile of horse manure, in fact, I'd rather have horse manure than an LRL, because at least I could fertilize my vegetable garden with the manure. LRLs are nothing but e-waste rubbish.

So Fugro uses LRLs to conduct their geophysical surveys?

geowizard
08-18-2012, 04:23 PM
Chris,

Yes you did, I think you misunderstood, we're on the same side, you gave the link to a good example and I was following up for the "faithful believers" to help debunk the BS behind LRL's.

You have pointed out a good example. Under "specifications" it gives the weight and other non technical spec's. It uses a 650 nm, 3 milliwatt laser. For what purpose? Yes, it's BS. But the "believers" still believe they work "part of the time". So, yes, which part of the time are they working? Anyone can buy a 650 nm, 5 mw laser on eBay for $2.99 using buy it now.

Lasers cannot penetrate the earth. Not any more than a flashlight can penetrate the earth. Believers in the special ability of lasers to measure into the earth don't understand the limits of optical devices in the geo-physical world. Whether that's the point or beside the point, people still reach into their pockets and spend big bucks on things they "believe" work without any understanding of why they can't possibly work.

Fugro uses proven methods to perform professional geophysical surveys. Proven methods of remote sensing using electromagnetics and passive measurement of the earth's residual magnetic field are demostrated every day in the real world of mineral exploration as you are no doubt already aware.

- Geowizard

geowizard
08-18-2012, 04:36 PM
RE: REAL metal detector app on a smartphone...

Back to AK Nugget's point. Yes, a smart phone can become a computing platform. It's possible to use the smartphone to display data from a smart interface to an electromagnetic coil system. With that in mind, the touch screen could be used to select from a variety of metal detector functions; i.e. pulse induction, constant (VLF) using one frequency, many frequencies or a spectrum of frequencies. Android displays are excellent for high resolution compared to most detectors on the market. The ipod platforms really are the best in terms of display. I'm not familiar with the operating system and the high-level software support would be challenging for developers.

- Geowizard

Reno Chris
08-19-2012, 09:08 AM
I did look at the Fugro website and everything looked OK on first glance, but what confused me was the following:


Another LRL:

Fugro Airborne has been in the business of geophysical surveying for decades. www.fugroairborne.com.

As far as the smartphone, Yes, it is a computing platform, but not at all made for detecting, and there is more to a metal detector than just a computer processor. You'd need a bunch of additional electronics and power systems to adapt a smartphone into a detector, and it could be done but I think its just easier to buy a detector.

geowizard
08-28-2012, 09:06 AM
Chris,

I agree, never buy a LRL.

To the question of using a smartphone for a metal detector, of course, external electronics are required.

Microchip offers a USB interface for about 80 bucks. Information and video:

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en553673

On your website, you have an excellent discussion about making a Home-made metal detector. So with reference to www.geotech1.com where techie types are disecting and making detectors of every description, it is within the realm of possibilities to build a (legitimate) metal detector that incorporates a smartphone.

Recently, at Radio Shack, when I brought up the subject, the dealer demonstrated a remote control toy ATV that is controlled by a smartphone. Technology is advancing rapidly with wifi and bluetooth technologies.

I'm not trying argue the point - only trying to bring out the possibilities.

- Geowizard