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View Full Version : 3M Nomad Miner's Moss Question



Agent_34
09-04-2012, 02:31 PM
Can anyone tell me if there is some reason why I should use blue carpeting instead of brown carpeting in my sluice boxes? I can purchase the brown for much less than the blue. It seems to me that they would both function the same. Am I correct?

MIKE MCKEEVER
09-04-2012, 07:02 PM
Now this is just my opinion--but i dont use miners moss at all. It came on two of our three dredges and after using it one time we just threw it away. I like just the black mat and carpet. Maybe we lose some small gold but test panning of the tailings shows no loss. Like i stated -- just my opinion --

mike

geowizard
09-04-2012, 09:10 PM
I bought two rolls 3 ft x 25 ft. The product has varied from the earlier mat. The new mat is different compared to the old mat. The old mat had the spaghetti wound loosely and was a reasonable to marginal gold grabber. The new (possibly chinese improvement) has the spaghetti stuck together and after one clean-up, all of the nomad mat got permanently pulled. I am testing dragline's sawtooth rubber mat. I will run a fine gold test in an A52 tomorrow with the sawtooth mat.

- Geowizard

Steve Herschbach
09-05-2012, 07:28 AM
No, the color does not matter. There are different grades However. Thicker, thinner, tight or loose wound, etc.

Agent_34
09-05-2012, 09:15 AM
Thank you for the replies. Appearently, the lady on the phone was looking at another product so the price was not as good as I thought.

Since, as Steve says, there are different thicknesses/styles and geowizard has noticed a difference, it makes me wonder what was used in the Clarkson study upon which I have so far based my design. I was planning on just using all miners moss. However, I am considering whether or not there is any value in using other products in conjunction with miners moss since what I purchase may or may not work as well as it was supposed to in the Clarkson study. This is also in light of the old thread I was reading yesterday wherein Steve and one of the other members (chicken gold?) were discussing how there may be significant value in changing the riffles etc. in sections of the sluice box to induce gold to settle out that otherwise may not.

Does anyone have comments regarding astroturf under expanded or otherwise. At the store yesterday I noticed some that was roughly .5 inch thick. Appearently some people like the stuff.

If you were just setting up your sluice boxes and you could put anything in them, what would you use?

geowizard
09-05-2012, 02:17 PM
Be carefull,

Don't set yourself up for failure. The Clarkson study was a great contribution to the science of placer gold recovery. Unfortunately, it is NOT the holy graile. Every mine produces gold that has a "habit". The gold may be "hydrodynamic", like to sail or hydroplane. It may be just plain old chunky particles that drop and hang in the moss.

I have "seen success" on my creek with astro turf so I used it FIRST. Well, my plant is "different". I'm not using hydraulic riffles, my flow is different, the gold is the SAME. Astro turf DID NOT WORK. Maybe I didn't tune the sluice properly! I read Clarkson's report, spoke with him personally, thought about having it tatoo'ed on my chest. Well, it just isn't that simple. What works for every other mine in the world doesn't always work.

The emphasis in the Clarkson report was "screening". Screen... Screen... Screen! Classify down to the minimum size you need to run.

Color is only a "visibility" issue. Blue shows the gold. Everyone wants blue.

- Geowizard

overtheedge
09-05-2012, 06:18 PM
Well said geowizard.
Whether it is gold or people, adapt to their character cause it ain't gonna change to suit you.
eric

geowizard
09-06-2012, 07:03 AM
Thanks, and you have made an excellent observation, OTE.

Having a background in psychology has caused ME more problems than other people. They just won't behave as expected!

Gold has behavior that comes from it's origin (genetics) and what it has experienced (learned behavior). Now, how do we get that darned gold to behave like we want it to?

Or... Better yet, as you propose, maybe WE need to adapt and modify our behavior, 'cause it ain't gonna change it's behavior! :)

- Geowizard

mtau
09-06-2012, 10:15 AM
I started out with astro turf under expanded- recovery wasn't that great. Switched to vortex under expanded, and doubled the recovery. The gold runs from flakes to wire to chunky to flour.

goldmann
09-06-2012, 10:31 PM
I bought two rolls 3 ft x 25 ft. The product has varied from the earlier mat. The new mat is different compared to the old mat. The old mat had the spaghetti wound loosely and was a reasonable to marginal gold grabber. The new (possibly chinese improvement) has the spaghetti stuck together and after one clean-up, all of the nomad mat got permanently pulled. I am testing dragline's sawtooth rubber mat. I will run a fine gold test in an A52 tomorrow with the sawtooth mat.
- Geowizard

No, the color does not matter. There are different grades However. Thicker, thinner, tight or loose wound, etc.

geowizard and/or Steve Herschbach, do either of you have a brand name or a website link showing-> the 'new mat' or the very best type of Miners Moss on the market to use for gold, please.??

Thank you.

Steve Herschbach
09-07-2012, 06:06 AM
There is no "very best type". Different box designs call for different types of carpet. What works well in an A52 sluice may not work well in Dick's sluice. Best carpet is like best metal detector - there is only what is best for your application, and everyone will argue over what that might be. I do know I was getting shipped blue flexible stuff and last shipment came in as gray less flexible stuff. I will investigate and update the specs and pictures we have online at the link below. I heard a rumor that 3M got out of the business but have not confirmed that. Sees doubtful.

http://www.akmining.com/cart/sluice_boxes.htm

geowizard
09-07-2012, 07:52 AM
I suppose it's possible to make almost any mat work in a given sluice if you have enough patience. The gold will, with enough adjustment of water flow and angle as well as length of box, settle and find a home in the sluice. In many cases, such as mine, I am bent toward volume. Therefore, in order to wash 50 yards of material an hour, I have to push spray bars with 600 gallons per minute of water. That water will "flush" all of the gold out of the box unless other adjustments are made. My box is 3 ft wide and 16 feet long. I am still looking for a solution. I don't have the answers yet.

- Geowizard

Agent_34
09-07-2012, 09:07 AM
I have questions similar to goldmann. What I have personally seen is generally two types of Miner's moss or "nomad" matting available for purchase. Right now I am trying to decide which I should purchase.

Type 1 is about 3/8" thick from top to bottom, the vinyl threads are less than .5 mm in thickness, the weave is loose from top to bottom, the loops are smaller in diameter, it is more flexible.
Type 2 is about 1/2" thick from top to bottom, the vinyl threads are thicker at about .5 mm thick, the weave is loose at the top but stuck together more at the bottom, the loops are larger in diameter, it is less flexible.

There may be other variations, but that is what I have in hand.

Since "Type 2" is stuck together more, I don't know that there is a big advantage over "Type 1" even though it is thicker. Also, it seems that the size of the loops would affect what size gold would get caught and therefore, depending on the situation, one type may be better than the other. I have concerns that the bigger loops on "Type 2" might stick up farther than they should and interfere with the formation of the vorticies. Something like this was mentioned as a problem for another type of carpet in the Clarkson study. I have been told by the carpet store person that they out-sell the thicker "Type 2" over the thinner "Type 1" by about 20 to 1 and that the miners like it because it holds the gold better than the thin stuff. However, at the other store that specializes in mining stuff, they sell "Type 1" only because "that's what the miners want".

And I still don't know which type to buy.

Steve Herschbach
09-07-2012, 11:38 AM
We unfortunately get product substitutions from suppliers at times. We were getting precut carpet in the blue, whcih is 3M 1500 Blue. Then this year it all showed up gray. Both types are the same thickness 0.41 inches (10.3 mm) but the gray is stiffer due to many of the threads being glued together plus the threads are a hair thicker. The 3M product has much less of that occurrring and so is more open and slightly softer in feel. The precuts we have in stock are gray stuff but we still can get the 3M Blue in 20' x 3' rolls and have one roll in stock at this time. I have found out some people are unhappy about the switch and so will be bringing in more full rolls of the blue. The change has been noted on our website.

1641

AK Nugget
09-07-2012, 04:02 PM
Sincw were talking Miner's Moss (Nomad). A trick I learned from a local miner for better utilization of your scrap expensive MM is, welding pcs. together.
If you lay the pcs. next to each other, like in Steve's picture above, then take a dull utility knife and heat the blade with a torch until it's nice and hot then just run the blade between the 2 much like doing a carpet joint. Let cool and it's done, and you'll find it's nearly as strong as a single pc.

Neal