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View Full Version : Anyone have claims they are leasing to dredgers?



Jeff
03-17-2013, 09:07 AM
Anybody have claims they are leasing to dredgers?

ManVSgold
03-17-2013, 05:51 PM
If you dont have any luck Jeff,watch my latest youtube video.It might help you out a lot. If you dont get any offers,it cant hurt to give it a shot.Gl my friend!!

Jeff
03-17-2013, 08:59 PM
Thanks, I just happened to view one of ur vids yesterday. I watched the rest today. I heard about u guys. Great storyline.

geowizard
03-18-2013, 06:38 AM
The problem with leasing claims to dregers can be summarized as follows:

1. Most dredgers start out with no money.

2. Most dredgers have too high of expectation.

3. There's no way to audit production, so the claim owner is likely to get stiffed.

4. There's tremendous liability for the claim owner.

5. The claim owner usually gets left with a major cleanup and I'm not talking about gold! :)

So with the time, cost and loss of gold, why lease a claim to a dredger?

On the otherhand, I have leased mining property on a lease with option to buy to public traded exploration companies. Money is paid up front and paid annually.

- Geowizard

Steve Herschbach
03-18-2013, 06:50 AM
Chuck, I do not think the question was why not lease to dredgers.

And who said anything about leasing on percentages? Leases can be hard cash, and that eliminates most of your issues. You can require liability insurance. You can also require a performance bond. Maybe you need to rethink how you structure dredging leases?

Sorry but it sounds like your experiences have left you feeling pretty negative on people. I have plenty of cash and I am interested in possibly working out a deal to put a fully funded 8" dredging operation on a leased claim in 2014. I can do percentages but am not adverse to cash leases. And I do clean up after myself.

geowizard
03-18-2013, 07:15 AM
Steve,

I agree. A cash lease is the best way to go. Because I have offered to lease mining claims to dredgers, I have found that the prevailing interest is shown by "recreational miners" that "don't have a lot of money" (their words) and want to lease on a percentage. In fact, out of literally hundreds of emails and conversations, when the question of paying up front comes up - the deal is off. The obvious reason is because there is risk to the lessee to place cash on the table to lease a property they may have no knowledge of. The mining claim owner may make all kinds of statements about gold.

I ran the ad for Ophir on www.goldandsilvermines.com . I spent two years discussing the options with investors, potential JV partners, buyers, and lessees. The issues remain the same. Nobody has cash. Many are looking at me to fund them! :)

Even today, I get two or three calls every day and as many emails. It's the same story.

You are a professional and I am certain there are other professionals that are thorough in all business matters. Brian Berkhausen (sp?) even commented on his similar experience with cleaning up after a lease.

I have just ended a three year lease at Ophir. Everything was done under a standard "Rocky Mountain" lease. There were issues that I could write a book about.

Steve, With your permission, I would add; I have claims available right now on Ophir Creek, Dodge Creek, Gold Run Creek, Ganes Creek, Little Creek, Moore Creek, and Yankee Creek. Anyone with cash can call 907-444-1636.

I will post the number of replies.



- Geowizard

Steve Herschbach
03-18-2013, 08:04 AM
Brian's deal was not a lease it was a GPAA deal and for many reasons had issues but mainly uncontrolled access by any number of individuals. But yes, leasing claims has issues, and it works both ways.

You can structure ads to weed out worthless inquiries. The problem listing creeks and a phone number like you just did is people have to call you to find out even the most basic information. I read that and if I did not know better I would think you were leasing out some pretty hot properties. You can't try to stir up interest by dropping big names and then complain about the interest you stir up.

geowizard
03-18-2013, 08:35 AM
Steve,

Yes, and those are wise words! I understand. The properties were chosen because they are on well known creeks AND they represent known geophysical anomalies. So, they have conductive mineralization in bedrock or alluvial deposits. From the geophysical surveys, I can show and anyone else can also see that an anomaly is present on one bank and not the other. It is fascinating to see. I have defined conductive mineralizartion on paleochannels on Ganes and all of the listed creeks that represent concentration of "heavy" conductive mineralization! Some of the properties are on hardrock and the hardrock could be responsible for associated placers.

Here's a link to an example:

http://www.alaska-gold.com/workings.jpg

The blue pins represent conductive anomalies along the red survey lines. The cardinal red lines represent claim boundaries.

Note also: My neighbor (happens) to be mining on my claim!

- Geowizard

Jeff
03-18-2013, 09:09 AM
And most dredgers think that if you have many claims for sale they are worked out. Leases are a double edged sword to both parties in some cases. If you have found anomalies, are you not working them? I would be willing to work with or along side someone until they knew me well enough or were comfortable enough to trust that Im not going to steal. Unlike the dirtbags on TV and everywhere else that dont keep their word....mine is as good as gold.
Before someone lays down $$ in advance to lease a claim, they should be able to test the ground with 10-15% of whatever is found during sampling going to the claim owner. For the first time in over 20+ years, I'm a little short on dough so I'm looking to pay a percentage only, so if anyone needs a 3 or a 5" to check out their claim or work with them just PM me.

Steve Herschbach
03-18-2013, 12:52 PM
Hi Jeff,

Here is where I feel geowizards pain.

"Before someone lays down $$ in advance to lease a claim, they should be able to test the ground with 10-15% of whatever is found during sampling going to the claim owner."

Absolutely, for unproven ground I would expect nothing else. However, for proven ground as a claim owner I would have to deal with one observed fact. And that fact is that in my opinion having watched lots of dredgers over the years, only a few in a hundred understand how much work it is and really apply thenselves to that work. The only time the dredge makes gold is when gravel is going through the nozzle (and even then often not!) and the average so-called dredger finds every legitimate reason known to man to do everything and anything but keep that gravel going up the nozzle.

So as a claim owner the odds are I make my bet on one or two people I do not know on a percentage lease on my ground, well, the sorry truth is I am probably going to lose that bet. Time and time again people flake out, leave, or otherwise simply do not produce.

I AM NOT saying that is you or saying this to reflect anything on you or your abilities. I am just pointing out why people do not jump at the chance to lease ground to dredgers on a percentage basis.

Then as the guy dredging I also kind of hate percentage deals. They put pressure on me to perform. The miner may think his ground is super rich - never met many claim owners who thought otherwise. They put you in that "hot spot" which turns out no good, and next thing you are getting accused of holding out. When you are talking gold and percentages and people who do not know each other there are a million ways for bad blood to happen.

I will be looking for known producing creeks myslef and while not adverse to doing a percentage deal I am also more inclined to just make my own bet on me, my gear, and my own personal feeling about the ground to just pay cash, keep what I find. Nice and clean and the miner gets paid no matter if I decide to just sit in the sun all day!

For deals like you are looking for Jeff I like the old "I go do the work and sign your assessment work papers" gig.

Jeff
03-18-2013, 01:07 PM
For deals like you are looking for Jeff I like the old "I go do the work and sign your assessment work papers" gig.

Yep, that's about right. I guess I'll be at GPAA claims or public areas if things dont work out.

geowizard
03-18-2013, 01:14 PM
Jeff,

I use a 3" too. I run a Proline 3" Combo (from AMDS) for prospecting dragline tailings. The gold runs 0.01 troy ounces per cubic yard = 1 ounce per 100 cubic yards. Same as the Hoffman crew last year.

One cubic yard = about 200 gallons, so that's 40, 5 gallon buckets. I call 10 buckets a sample and multiply x 4 to get the sample converted back to oz per cubic yard. One sample takes 30 minutes to run. So, one cubic yard would take 2 hours.

The gold (if pure) would be worth $1600/100 = $16 per cubic yard. Then you have to pay for one gallon of gas @ $10.00. The net revenue would = $3.00 per hour. My 10 percent would be 30 cents.

- Geowizard

overtheedge
03-18-2013, 02:28 PM
There is a lot of unclaimed ground still to be found. Most all of it is marginal to almost barren. But there are hot spots in those marginal areas. Finding them takes 100's of hour of research. Then many days of boots on the ground sampling and get a first-hand lay of the land. Many of the aerial photos are so outdated when it comes to river courses.

Mineral estate status is available of the web.

Not much happens up here prospecting-wise until about the first of June.

May I suggest you select an area that has had a few small successes, accessible and have a few claims in the vicinity. Then research the snot out of it. There is a sticky on Research on the main page.

Alaska is big and you either need lots of experience around the state or you gotta specialize in one area.

I don't have a claim, but I have a good probability of claiming my own. But I specialized on my area.

That being said, I would have to ask myself, "Why would I lease out ground and take 15 on the dollar for gold I'm sure I have?" It is money in the ground. Admittedly there are some folks that are prospectors and promoters, but miners only if they really have to.

So sure, keep asking around. Someone might want some work done and be unwilling to do it themselves. In the meantime, perhaps start narrowing your focus to part of the state. Your choice.

Knowledge is tested by application. The results are predictable.
eric

eric

chickenminer
03-18-2013, 03:22 PM
Jeff...
ManvsGold had some good advice there.

As a placer miner with claims I get GOBS of emails from guys just like you.
Your little 4" dredge lease is frankly more of a PITA to me. It is easy to just say no
in an email or phone call. 10-15% of a take off a 4" dredge working in the creek bottom.
Come on .... don't bother me.

I do let folks dredge on my ground all the time. Never took a %. I saw it more as they were prospecting for me.

If you ain't willing to show up at my door at ask me directly, I figured you don't want it bad enough.

Now don't bother knocking at MY door .... too many friends way ahead of you on the list!

ManVSgold
03-18-2013, 04:11 PM
I agree 100% ChinkenMiner.I could be on a new private claim tomorrow, if I just wanted to head up and start making new friends.You are also right as far a some people dont charge anything.I got an offer to work any part of 350 acres on Dollar creek this season for 0%. They want me to go out and find the gold and tell them where it is, so they can test close by for spots to bring in the d-10's. People just aren't willing to drive up and make new friends for some reason. I suggest, if you have a mission Jeff,go balls deep and don't piddle around.:p

geowizard
03-18-2013, 05:11 PM
and... if you do, be sure you have insulated chest waders on! :)

- Geowizard

Jeff
03-18-2013, 06:55 PM
Thanks for the advice ya'll. That Dollar creek deal sounds good. Pass it on if ur not gonna work it. With my luck, the little hole I step into will go over my chest high waders. But I'll have a thin suit on.

carter
03-18-2013, 08:01 PM
Seems like i asked this question exactly 1 month ago. I must have worded it wrong.

Jeff
03-18-2013, 10:43 PM
Thats why I asked again. I figured everybody was on vacation then or trying to out do John and Yoko's record in bed.

AKdredger
03-24-2013, 07:59 AM
Some interesting points on the dredging leases here. As a dredger I have done both percentage and cash. Me personally, I prefer to pay the money to the claim owner, that way me and the owner both are happy. He gets paid and doesn't assume just because I have a massive dredge hole I must be hitting it good, which most of the time isn't the case - I try to be thorough in my dredge holes. I have done percentages and many times when I truly don't find much I feel bad because payment is chump change and claim owners can think you are short changing them.

I agree many "new" dredgers are under equipped and lack experience necessary to find consistent pay streaks or deposits. One thing I have witnessed over the years is they have no idea how hard of work it is humping equipment and moving rocks all day only to find a few little flakes. I am currently letting a co-worker work with me on weekends and showing him the ropes of 20+ years of dredging experience, he is giving it his all, but is still a rookie and his production dredging next to me shows that using the exact same dredges.

Keep knocking on doors looking for that claim to work, persistence will pay off. I got my first break from a long dead miner I met on Palmer Creek road walking knee deep in snow. I wrote him my payment check each summer to work his claims, showed him my proud few flakes of gold and enjoyed his stories in the small cabin in Hope, AK. He never cashed a single check of mine, I asked why and he said he wanted to see what I was made of. I am certain he is still around the dredge hole now & then.
RIP 007.

Jeff
03-24-2013, 10:35 AM
Great story about the oldtimer. Those that have an impact on us are still around in our minds.

geowizard
03-26-2013, 08:22 AM
Well. it's been a week and ond one day since I opened up the phones for dredgers to call.

No calls! No offers! Nada!

These claims aren't in Africa. No, they don' have warm water. :)

- Geowizard

Steve Herschbach
03-26-2013, 08:31 AM
Maybe everyone is pessimistic about the opportunity.

geowizard
03-26-2013, 09:06 AM
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work."

- Thomas Edison

AKdredger
03-26-2013, 05:09 PM
Geo, are those claims on the road system? I know I can't afford the expense of an airplane to haul my dredge in, plus with a regular job its hard to get out to those far off locations.

geowizard
03-26-2013, 05:48 PM
AKdredger,

The claims are 200 miles from the road system. The Iditarod race goes through Ophir. The beauty of mining off the road system is the solitude. I am sympathetic about the issues of cost and having to maintain your "day job". Been there - done that.

The opportunity for dredgers at Ophir and surrounding areas, is an opportunity to go back in time to a period without a population of other miners and on-lookers that have to peer over your shoulder and see what you're doing and look in the box! It's just you, your dredge and gold. I flew my dredge in on the same bird I flew in on from McGrath to Ophir. The trip from Anchorage is going to cost a buck a pound to McGrath. Personal round trip ANC to MCG and back is about $500. The cost is not practical for part-timers.

- Geowizard