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Steve Herschbach
03-26-2013, 08:33 AM
There is an amazing array of mini excavators on the market, and many can be had for less than the cost of an 8" suction dredge.

But there seems to be a real lack of wash plants designed to work with these small units. There is a huge gap between shovel into highbankers, and the big wash plants.

So what is there that can easily take the feed from a 1/4 yard bucket? Straight up oversized highbanker or small trommel. I know from experience the Proline Big Banker is too small. Need something at least twice that size. Preferably on a trailer.

geowizard
03-26-2013, 08:49 AM
Steve,

I asked myself the same question a few years ago. I designed the Maxi-Banker. Last year, I ran two prototypes at Ophir. It is designed to handle 50 cubic yards per hour. Running a Bobcat with a 1/4 yard bucket and making a cycle every 60 seconds will push 15 cubic yards an hour. So, the Maxi-Banker could keep three Bobcats working full bore.

The Maxi-Banker is fabricated here in AZ. I ship UPS freight. The Maxi-Banker is contained in kit form and fits within the two 3 ft x 8 ft sluice boxes. It is constructed from 2" square steel "unistrut" or "telespar". Both tradenames are searchable online.

So, the Maxi-Banker has a screen deck with grizzley that classifies to about minus .5". It has two spray bars that split the 650 GPM output from a Keene Vanguard 23 HP pump.


http://www.stampede-gold.com/maxi_banker.jpg

- Geowizard

chickenminer
03-26-2013, 10:55 AM
Steve,
Seems to me you are looking for one of the small testing plants. There are some nice ones out there but they are spendy. Goldfield makes some and one of the sweetest plants I have seen is a NZ built trommel. I'll post a photo if I can find it.

I would shy away from anything like geowiz's design, unless all you are running is pre-washed tailings. If you have any kind of a heavy sediment or compacted material in the pay zone your material just will not wash in the short distance.

ManVSgold
03-26-2013, 11:25 AM
I think this little thing is super cool.This video is a few years old and i believe many changes have been made from what Ive heard.1 thing I have heard is the sluice box is now much much bigger thank gawd. Anyway cool,portable design.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv6vCPAXZI

ManVSgold
03-26-2013, 11:30 AM
The grizzly area has been modified slightly as well from what Ive heard. Not to shabby for an ATV wash plant!

geowizard
03-26-2013, 11:31 AM
The Maxi-Banker has a short lead time; two weeks. That's the reason I rolled my own. Gold field and others want six months lead time and then they still have issues with logistics. The Maxi-Banker can be loaded in a Cessna 207 (I've done it) and be flown to the mine. Hard to disassemble and reconfigure a welded plant. The 4 ft wide frame fits a standard 1000 lb axle available from Northern Tool.

I am exploring reconfiguration of the screen. I reconfigured to a side dump and lowered the profile. The screen can be set at variable tilt to clear as needed between loading cycles.

- Geowizard

ManVSgold
03-26-2013, 11:35 AM
I just found out this thing is an angus mackirk. Here is the page Steve and it has a few nice mini wash plants on it.Let me know how the mini washplant does for you as im looking to do the same.

http://www.angusmackirk.com/product_pages/trommel.html

ManVSgold
03-26-2013, 11:37 AM
Little bigger mini wash plant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq4wIKkp9s0&feature=player_embedded#!

chickenminer
03-26-2013, 12:40 PM
Here we go... the bulk testing plant in this video is what I would shoot for. IMO anything smaller and you will be very disappointed in production/performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_W_DEWktao

1870

ManVSgold
03-26-2013, 12:51 PM
I agree chicken. If access is not an issue and you want to be able to "feed the crap" out of something, Id say go with a trommel for production.

Steve Herschbach
03-26-2013, 01:51 PM
Hi Dick,

Spot on but still too big. I get what you are saying about volume and all, but again, we are talking 1/4 yard bucket. If I am shoveling into a high banker the next obvious step up is get a mini excavator or Bobcat. But simple, solid, small reliable plants are rare as hens teeth.

Just hard finding something simple available off the shelf. I plan on visiting you this summer and one reason was to just look at your rig to see if I could make a scaled down version. Kind of gets back to original question though. Does anyone in US make one for purchase as opposed to making one. Angus is getting close but durability I am not sure about and way too little screen.

Geo, feel free to quote your prices here if you wish.

Just amazing that with all the gold getter gizmos on the market this one area goes wanting. I would love to have something to offer at AMDS for the guy that wants to get off the long handle shovel and into a seat.

Goldfield is to die for. I would have to so my wife could collect the insurance money to buy one.

carter
03-26-2013, 02:15 PM
Hi Steve, sounds like you are looking down the path that ive been trying to go,The one im building is going on the same thought process as you, take a look at the goldclaimer brand, they have 2 models, gold claimer & african model. 2-8 yd/hr. and under 600 lbs. goldclaimer has a 100gal. tank with sand screw., would be excellent for sampling cuase you wouldnt need a settling pond. Do you ever come thru healy? If timing would be right id like to have coffee w/you and swap some knowledge, or you teach me the detector life on my claims/area.

carter
03-26-2013, 02:19 PM
Not to offend you geo, but i cant see that unistrut holding up to anything but the airplane ride. Their is no cross bracing either, seems that it would rock to pieces.





Steve,

I asked myself the same question a few years ago. I designed the Maxi-Banker. Last year, I ran two prototypes at Ophir. It is designed to handle 50 cubic yards per hour. Running a Bobcat with a 1/4 yard bucket and making a cycle every 60 seconds will push 15 cubic yards an hour. So, the Maxi-Banker could keep three Bobcats working full bore.

The Maxi-Banker is fabricated here in AZ. I ship UPS freight. The Maxi-Banker is contained in kit form and fits within the two 3 ft x 8 ft sluice boxes. It is constructed from 2" square steel "unistrut" or "telespar". Both tradenames are searchable online.

So, the Maxi-Banker has a screen deck with grizzley that classifies to about minus .5". It has two spray bars that split the 650 GPM output from a Keene Vanguard 23 HP pump.


http://www.stampede-gold.com/maxi_banker.jpg

- Geowizard

geowizard
03-26-2013, 02:52 PM
If you get your nose up against the display - you can see that the frame is cross-bolted in three perpendicular directions. :)

I worked both of the plants you're looking at all last summer in Alaska. The gross weight is 1000 pounds. This isn't a light weight yet it will fly within the weight limits of a Cessna 207. With every design comes compromise.

Steve,

There's a thou in the sluice including the bends and fab, another thou in the parts and two weeks to fab. I charge myself $5K for each plant. The vanguard pump retails for $2500. Hoses are extra. The 4" foot valve is a couple hundred last I checked. I ran miners moss and astro turf under expanded with 20 percent recovery. I can't blame the plant. I plan on Gold Hog and astro turf this summer.

- Geowizard

carter
03-26-2013, 03:20 PM
been working with metal for 25yrs for a job, just my opinion, the "erector" set is a neat idea to do in remote areas though.

Sorry for the negative thinking,
Carter

Steve Herschbach
03-26-2013, 03:57 PM
No, no, no - negative thinking is good!

Have not been to Healy in many years I am afraid. I owned the small Gold Claimer up at Moore Creek. My advice - never use a conveyor to feed in Alaska. Conveyors may work fine for staking clean washed tailings like with the bucketline dredges, but they are a nightmare in sticky muddy, Alaska soil. If you look at any system look at how many piles it makes. A good system makes two piles - the big stuff, and everything else. Any system that is putting a screen ahead of a screen and making three piles - look out.

The excavating device does the first screen - whatever fits in the bucket! Then onto a grizzly or into a trommel. Big rock gets screened, smaller stuff goes into sluice.

All the little gizmos on the market are making the primary system too small and making up for it with a pre-screening system. In other words the smallest Gold Claimer is designed to be fed with a long handle shovel. By adding a 2" screen and conveyor we are going to pretend we have a unit designed to handle the job when in fact we are adding complexity.

Imagine getting a Keene highbanker. It comes with a conveyor system. You shovel onto a screen to get rid of big rocks which make a pile. A conveyor lifts material and dumps it into hopper of Keene highbanker, where it gets screened again, making another pile of smaller rocks. Then it runs through sluice box and makes a tailing pile.

Make sense? How about we just get rid of the conveyor system and shovel into the highbanker?

carter
03-26-2013, 04:22 PM
I was thinking the african model needs a 3'x3' grizzy hopper but then you do have another pile to move. My thinking on mine is to have all material eject out the back and just keep pulling trommel up the creek with the ex40. Very minimal piles to move and very compact unit.It is probably twice the size of the goldclaimer.

chickenminer
03-26-2013, 04:22 PM
Steve,
I think there is a reason for that gap. You either play around or you move up to something that can actually do work. Start feeding something with even a 1/4 yd bucket and you can move material.
Which requires a plant capable of that, in both size and construction quality.
That is why I say anything smaller or "simplier" than the washplant I posted, you might as well go back to the high-banker and shovel.

Call the guys at Automatic Welding and see what they quote to build a simple 4'x6' single deck shaker plant on a trailer.

geowizard
03-26-2013, 04:32 PM
carter,

I appreciate your thinking which reflects your experience. So, I was working in steel 30 years when you got started. :)

Of course, I worked with an erector set 10 years before that!

The Maxi Banker isn't a solve all problems design. It is a low-cost throw it away or reuse the parts for something else design. The unistrut from the first plant, plant #1 became a flat bed trailer! So, I shipped up two more plants last year. Positive thinking told me two plants would produce twice as much gold!

- Geowizard

Steve62
03-26-2013, 07:06 PM
Steve,

Check this out.

http://hecklerfabrication.com ( Sorry, you'll have to type it in - Still figuring out how to post Links ) On the left select 159 or 159-V. It's Trailer-Mounted. Bigger Units are available. I'm going to be using the 4815-V for a mix of Bulk Sampling / Small Production. Nice guys. Nothing is too much trouble.

Steve.

Steve Herschbach
03-26-2013, 07:56 PM
OK Dick, so you are saying even if an excavator moves half the yards as your excavator you still need the same size wash plant? I get it needs to be stout. But why way bigger than needed? That excavator in that video was way bigger than my Takeuchi TB135. Why could your rig not be built exactly to 1/2 scale?

Why do Heckler, Angus, and others put a grizzly ahead of a trommel? Makes no sense to me, unless they are trying to make undersized equipment work with oversized feed.

overtheedge
03-26-2013, 08:58 PM
...unless they are trying to make undersized equipment work with oversized feed.

That is exactly the premise. Be able to feed it the biggest material your prime mover can move. Then classify away all the obviously too big to be gold. What is left to process is small stuff and doesn't require near the size of processing equipment as the input end.

I admit a distinct fondness for large classification areas with plenty of water. If the prime mover puts it in the plant, it gets washed.

But, I shovel in. I don't run equipment, yet. You just get a lot of thinking time on the wrong end of a #2 shovel. A lot of that time is thinking about the most cost-effective equipment that would get you off the end of this miserable shovel.

You also realize, from shoveling in, just what damage gets done by rocks half the size of a bowling ball does. Those smaller plants might be marginal for equipment and high cost, but the typical high-banker is hobby grade. The legs are too spindly, the classifier is too small, the water delivery system in undersized, The water distribution system is a complete joke, yada, yada, ... .

But when you have to transport the plant, you are forced to fore go a lot of the finer engineering practices.

Geowizard's design would get a D- in engineering design. But in practice, necessity requires a different mindset than an engineer's. Good enough for 1 season, maybe more and a good chance of some material salvage.

If you can't turn a reasonable profit with so-so, should you be spending more capital on a nicer plant? 50ypd is 50ypd.

Wash, classify, wash, classify and the best bedding you can afford.
eric

fineswme
03-26-2013, 09:50 PM
I see it as 3 fold when I have placer mined a river valley for "maximum" recovery :

1) classify off all boulders with machinery

2) classify in or at dump box

3 ) classify gravel for a better recovery (optional)

Steve Herschbach
03-26-2013, 10:07 PM
I think the ideal sequence is dig it, screen it, wash it.

All these guys are digging it, screening it, screening it again, and washing it.

fineswme
03-26-2013, 10:29 PM
That's the old timers way , Grizzly off rocks and everything 4" minus down the box, 6" water pump, 24" boxes 40', last 10' expanded over carpet ..... Seen a lot of gold come out that way , so "Sweet" to see the gold in the first 8' after 5 days of sluicing ...

I'm thinking that may be the advantage of a shaker screen wash box with 2 screens over under processing material with little or no clay ...

carter
03-26-2013, 10:48 PM
when you are trying to push 4" rocks down a sluice it takes alot of water which equals big pump, more fuel, & less portable. If you are sluicing a classified size, say 1"- your sluice will be designed way different and will use way less water. My trommel barrel is 18"x9ft, 7/8" holes. Sluice is 18"x96" and i hope to use just a 3" pump rated at 15,000-18,000 gph. Possibly a honda 4" if need be. I studied some dredge sluices & their water volumes & yds./hr.. just imagine if my keene 6" sluice has only 1"- going across it, you can back the water volume way down.

Steve Herschbach
03-27-2013, 05:49 AM
Who said 4" rocks? Normally you would screen to 1.5" - 2".

Look at Dicks trommel. He does not have 4" rocks going through box. This is old stuff. Look at any bucketline dredge.

geowizard
03-27-2013, 07:31 AM
Any of us that quit our day job and go dredging, still have to feed our family!

It's another matter when you still have a job - failure might be an option.

In this case, failure is NOT an option!

I give Dick's opinion a lot of weight. He's a career miner that put kids through college on gold mining.

Having said that, given great experience and gold in the ground, there is a rational point of entry. There's a compromise between what a person can afford to risk versus the potential reward. It isn't rational to take out a second mortgage on your home to borrow half a million dollars to put into a crap shoot. However, there is a minimum cost to enter into the realm of commercial mining. So, experience and gold are only part of the equation.

Success or failure can be a matter of selecting the right or wrong equipment. I want to see Steve succeed! It's not a matter of what I like or dislike or personality clashes, etc. It's about the best fit for THIS application at the least amount of capital risk.

- Geowizard

Steve Herschbach
03-27-2013, 07:44 AM
Oh I am all ears when Dick has something to offer. I do think there is a middle ground, and his unit scaled down is probably it. Same heavy duty construction, just smaller diameter barrel.

Here is a simple question for you excavator guys. 1/4 yard bucket, how many yard per hour can you comfortably move? Dig, swing dump, dig swing dump, dig swing dump, take a piss, dig swing dump.

I can't fail as I am not doing anything. This is just a subject if discussion. Something to think about.

geowizard
03-27-2013, 08:04 AM
In 2010, I spent days sitting on the tailgate of a pickup with a pad, pen, and stopwatch. I timed excavator cycles. The obvious reason was to calculate the production at a gold mine. The "input" was controlled by a Cat 235 excavator. The wash plant was rated at 250 cubic yards per hour. I will check my notes, but as I recall, the bucket was a one yard bucket.

The greatest variability in production was the "operator" factor. There are operators that can make an excavator work and there are other operators that dig, lift, swing, drop, unload... and you get the idea.

When an experienced operator is at the controls, a Cat 235 can cycle 90 degrees from dig back to dig in 30 seconds without over rev'ing or over torquing the machine. It fed 2.5 cu yds per minute to an 8 cu yard feed hopper. The feed hopper with feed belt fed the plant at 2 cu yards per minute. Constant feed is important.

- Geowizard

geowizard
03-27-2013, 08:34 AM
A quick note to Ote...

Ote,

A D- in engineering? The Maxi-Banker will undergo it's second season of on site testing at the Ophir proving grounds in 2013. :)

Happy to say.. it beats the he double ell out of a number 2 shovel. Two Bobcats aka "tonka Toys" (Thanks Bilbo) at $20K a piece and another $10K for transport will move 30 cu yards an hour. Thats the power of negative thinking achieving positive results BTW.

So, with 0.01 troy per cubic yard, in a 10 hour day... the top end is 3 ounces of pay. Average sampling is 0.025 ounces per cubic yard, but life has never been perfect. The plant will last 5 years - throw it away!!! and bring in a new plant.

Economics:

Equipment cost and total investment = $100K

Operating cost is 25 percent of gross production.

So, with conservative net of 200 ounces per season with 5 years work = $1 Million.

At 5 years, I push it all in a hole and start over.

- Geowizard

Steve Herschbach
03-27-2013, 09:00 AM
If you are running a long handle shovel Tonka Toy mining looks attractive.

Basically what Dick has is a simplified Goldfield Alaskan Series http://www.goldfieldeng.com/Data/Sites/2/goldfieldpdf/alaskanbrochure.pdf

1873
Goldfield Alaskan Series

1872
Dick Hammond Alaskan Series

1871
Dick Hammond Alaskan Series

The Goldfield has a slick plate with a screen and a side discharge chute that throws larger rock off to one side. Dick directly feeds it all into trommel. If trommel is tough enough I like Dick's way better. His trommel is a lifetime of mining distilled and a fabulous example of K.I.S.S.

geowizard
03-27-2013, 09:29 AM
Steve,

The first plant at the top is a half million dollar plant. Gold field or MSI, I have current pricing on MSI. BTW - it's FOB Brighton, Colorado. I have done spreadsheets on a $Million plant setup. Anyone that wants a copy, ask.

If money is no object, Cool!

The Maxi-Banker was designed using KISS as a primary spec. NO moving parts.

Note: The first trommel has a power plant. The power plant has moving parts, requires fuel, requires maintenance. The connectivity of the plant includes a control panel, power cables that are subject to getting cut or damaged, not to mention that the wiring requires the attention of a "trained" professional. Most miners are not trained electricians. The other end of the wiring connects to a 3 phase motor - more moving parts, a gear box - more moving parts. Whew!!

KISS just went out the window! :)

Dick has the optimum plant. About 50 percent scale model. I like it.

- Geowizard

overtheedge
03-27-2013, 09:39 AM
Geowizard's design would get a D- in engineering design. But in practice, necessity requires a different mindset than an engineer's. Good enough for 1 season, maybe more and a good chance of some material salvage.

Having worked around real engineers and done my own, there is a thing called the "Engineer's Dilemma." It is best summarized as ,"I can do better."

The plant is held together with 1 nut and bolt at each junction. It is made of uni-strut. It lacks sufficient bracing at the corners. Yada, yada.

But good enough is GOOD ENOUGH. I thought enough of it to save a copy to my hard-drive. I did not intend to fault the design; it was just the engineer in me leaking out.

I would and will argue that getting a positive cash flow going is far more important than designing and building a wash-plant that would get a B+ in structural engineering. With a solid positive cash flow, you can upgrade as you wish ... or not. Good enough is very possibly good enough.

A benefit you pointed out was transportability. This holds even more true for those few pieces that take the brunt of the wear. Haul in a few spare sticks. This further translates to speed and ease of repair. If you ain't moving gravel, you ain't making money.

My social skills (blundering bluntness) often leads to the wrong impression/interpretation. Your design would make a PE shudder. But it would possibly rate a B in hardware hacking the new term for an old term that is now considered disparaging. .

Were I using your design for bank-run, I would lengthen the wash and classify area.

In my last post, I said: wash, classify, wash, classify and then sluice. The first stage of classification is a wet grizzly to 1-2". Second classifier to -1/4". It takes serious effort to classify to -1/4" in one step. Effort = time and expense. The sooner I get rid of the too big to be gold, the less wear and tear on the plant. The smaller the rest of the plant can be (lower capital and operating expenses) and the more efficient the sluice can be.

The classifiers should be chosen for YOUR operational needs. The above fits my requirements.

So don't take the D- as bad. That is what I got in HS Calculus. Success is NOT based upon grades.

Now if I could find a cheap source of uni-strut. Yep, mine would be quite similar and probably get a D- in structural engineering too. And I would proudly wear that D- laughing all the way to the refiner.

If it ain't gold, don't mess with it any more than is necessary. But if you move it, you wash it.
eric

geowizard
03-27-2013, 09:57 AM
Ote,

I worked in Electronic design as a design engineer. Also in The oil patch as an oil well logging engineer. Mechanical engineering is based on a sound understanding of mathematics and materials. I have designed bridges over vertical shafts in underground mines with unistrut. Everything has a limit of stress and strain. As I have said, I could do anything if it weren't for the laws of physics! :)

Originally, I was committed to a placer mine with a short landing strip. A Cessna 206 or 207 could make it in loaded and get out unloaded. The Maxi-Banker was brought onto the forum a couple years ago as a way to "Feed your Family" in a waning economy.

Critical Design Review among peers is a GOOD thing. It helps make the process and design better! That's why I refer the design as a prototype. It has gone through reconfiguration from the original concept model. Having experience in this baseline design is providing real insight to the design of larger plants.

Einstein said; "Every design should be as good as possible, but not better."

- Geowizard

carter
03-27-2013, 10:13 AM
Amen,
Well said, everybody doesnt like neg. feedback. Geo has specific scenerios to overcome and he did it. Geo, im sure you have extra strut, maybe 3/8" cable with alot of crosbys/turnbuckles and you can brace anything. I didnt think of the no moving parts but here is a short story(my thoughts i guess)
I have a friend mining out of rampart on an incredible claim. They have a skidsteer,a mini excavator (6500lb class) and lease a small dozer from fairbanks each summer. The skid dumps over a slikplate with firehoses spraying on it, which slides over a 24" section of bars 2" apart. Everything 2"- goes to sluicebox. No vibrating deck, no trommel drum, so my point is, how much gold you lose on a non mechanical set up.? I think alot. If they have a lump of material not get washed good enough just sliding towards the grizzy, they loose gold to the tailings. They are content with that. A sluice might do its job but what about eveything before that, trommel,vibrating deck, retarder plates. All are to wash and classify before the sluice.
Carter

Steve Herschbach
03-27-2013, 10:39 AM
Ha! Not trying to sell the Goldfield, but let's face it, they are a successful company with a proven product. But you have to be rich to start out with one. If I had enough money to buy a new Goldfield I would never go mining! And as you point out Geo still too complicated.

Dick's solution is elegant in it's simplicity. And again, proven by the test of time in the real mining world.

AK Nugget
03-27-2013, 10:49 AM
This unit seems to be well engineered and built, reasonably priced too.

http://www.goldclaimerbrand.com/OregonPioneer.html

Neal

chickenminer
03-27-2013, 10:53 AM
OK Dick, so you are saying even if an excavator moves half the yards as your excavator you still need the same size wash plant? I get it needs to be stout. But why way bigger than needed? That excavator in that video was way bigger than my Takeuchi TB135. Why could your rig not be built exactly to 1/2 scale?

Why do Heckler, Angus, and others put a grizzly ahead of a trommel? Makes no sense to me, unless they are trying to make undersized equipment work with oversized feed.

I guess we come at this from opposite ends of the spectrum. Mine is from the work end, not the play end. A lifetime of watching outfits come and go in the Fortymile, from one extreme to the other.

To me you need a basic minimal size to be productive and sustaining. Forget the size of your hoe. You and I are holding hands on the keep-it-simple principal. I want something that takes what I throw at it and what I might throw at it.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was when I started shopping for an excavator.
I was looking at a 120 size machine. Thought it was perfect for my one-man podunk operation. Friends told me "don't do it" ... you will regret it within a week. They told me get a mininum of 200 size machine. Well boy howdy were they ever correct! Not that I couldn't have managed with a 120, it's that the 200 offers so much more flexibility.
Now I have a 300 too :) .

Same is going to be true for a washplant, especially true for these "toy" washplants.

Your 1/4 yd bucket excavator is going to be able to feed 30 yds/hr no problem. Small excavators are fast.
When I first built my plant I was feeding it with a backhoe that had a 1/4 yd bucket.
1874

I agree with Eric, the reason all those small plants have massive pre-screening is they can not handle the bank run material.

Steve Herschbach
03-27-2013, 11:31 AM
Hi Dick,

Thank you for your insight. "Mine is from the work end, not the play end". 100% correct of course, and if I had to go make a living tomorrow I would basically copy-cat you 100%.

I do have a friend who does indeed want to go play. Retired, has some money, wants to move a little dirt, does not want to shovel or dredge. Not making a living, just scratching something off the bucket list. Might spend twice what he gets - that is not the point. The point is you only live so long and it is something he wants to do. He wants me to help him out.

And now you know the rest of the story!

chickenminer
03-27-2013, 12:35 PM
Ah well...
Totally different picture. I would suggest something like the goldclaimer that Neal just posted a link to.
All ready to go ... pull it into the spot and start having fun :) !

Your friend is a smart guy. Forget all that hard work dredging junk. Sit on the
seat of that excavator and just dribble the "paydirt" into a snazzy little washplant.

Sounds like a hoot to me :)

Steve Herschbach
03-27-2013, 01:18 PM
Already had a Gold Claimer, does not work very well for virgin Alaska ground. It is a clone of a Denver Gold Saver, basically designed to be fed with a long handle shovel. By adding a 2" screen over a bin and a conveyor theory is nice even flow of feed little rig can handle. Now down wet mucky Alaska crud onto stationary pitched screen going into bin and up conveyor and watch the fun begin. Does work with nice loose, clean material and so good for reprocessing tailings.

AK Nugget
03-27-2013, 01:27 PM
Already had a Gold Claimer, does not work very well for virgin Alaska ground. It is a clone of a Denver Gold Saver, basically designed to be fed with a long handle shovel. By adding a 2" screen over a bin and a conveyor theory is nice even flow of feed little rig can handle. Now down wet mucky Alaska crud onto stationary pitched screen going into bin and up conveyor and watch the fun begin. Does work with nice loose, clean material and so good for reprocessing tailings.

Isn't the idea to, skim off the "wet mucky Alaska crud" until you get to runable material?

Neal

Steve Herschbach
03-27-2013, 01:53 PM
If you are so lucky as to have clean material under muck, that is the theory. There unfortunately are plenty of deposits with high clay content in the paydirt. Even at nearby Crow Creek the rich "brown layer" is brown due to the high tan clay particle content.

geowizard
03-27-2013, 05:18 PM
The Innoko River and its tributaries are known for "Blue Gumbo". It's the clay layer right above bedrock and it holds almost all of the gold. This stuff is like biscuit dough that has been left to sit a couple days. If it gets in a sluice, it rolls along and grabs gold and out of the end of the box taking the gold with it! There are challenges to be met and the plant needs to be able handle situations that aren't in the text book.

- Geowizard

Steve Herschbach
03-27-2013, 05:48 PM
At Ganes Creek we looked for the blue clay lumps in the tailing piles. A lot of very large nuggets came out of those clay lumps. Found several weighing about 1/2 oz each myself that way.

ManVSgold
03-27-2013, 05:55 PM
Steve I dont think your gonna find a solution to breaking up the gray wacky. Best you can do is run it through a trommel so it has some action and time to break it up a little.At least with a trommel you can keep the gray wacky chunks out of your sluice box.As far as ive seen they just let the stuff roll out the trommel with the rocks.U could always detect your tailings now and then.Seems your in the market of one of those small trommels in the 13-15k range.

http://www.angusmackirk.com/angus2/images/products/trommel/gr-trommel/gallery/gr-trommel1.jpg

AK Nugget
03-28-2013, 08:09 AM
The Innoko River and its tributaries are known for "Blue Gumbo". It's the clay layer right above bedrock and it holds almost all of the gold. This stuff is like biscuit dough that has been left to sit a couple days. If it gets in a sluice, it rolls along and grabs gold and out of the end of the box taking the gold with it! There are challenges to be met and the plant needs to be able handle situations that aren't in the text book.

- Geowizard

We ran into some of this blue gumbo last year at Mike Busby's claims. It seemed to run in streaks, Keith the claim watcher mentioned exactly what you stated regarding it carrying the gold out of the box.

Seems to me that if has that much good gold in it why not get a hold of a mid size cement mixer big enuf to feed with your small hoe and use the mixer to break the stuff up then dump it into a sluice box. It would take more time but while the mixer's doing it's thing you could be running the non-clay material.

Neal

carter
03-28-2013, 08:23 AM
Ive seen trommels with paddles inside of them and even solid rods bouncing around held in by lengths of chain just for this reason, these are more agressive than angle iron welded against the drum.

geowizard
03-28-2013, 09:20 AM
My theory is that there was a sticky blob of blue gumbo (a gumbo-blob) that re-entered from outer space and smacked into Alaska millions of years ago! :)

- Geowizard